From: William Putnam
To: Curtis Johnson
Date: Feb 22 1998 3:48:00 pm
Subject: Case #5 1/4
Parent message · Link to this message · Link to this thread ·
More messages from this author · Toggle pseudo-headers
CURTIS JOHNSON spoke thusly about: Case #5  1/4

[Trance state causing stigmata:]

WP> Sure, but is it true in this case?  Can you
WP> produce a refutation of the findings in this
WP> case? I still suggest you read the book I
WP> suggest and them you come up with a good
WP> retort on what it says.

>	The prolonged meditation on the Christ wounds
> in which the Church asks the subject to imagine the
> wounds in themselves can't lead to a trance state with
> the suggestion that the wounds occur???

A rarety, just as it is a rarety for someone
to conceive they can levitate by thinking of
the ascension of Christ into heaven. In any
case, don't you think that is the first thing
the non-Catholic psychologist (hopefully) will
look into by a commission of experts conceive
by the local bishop?

>	Thanks for the upload of the book section--the
> book is indeed as silly as I suspected.

Then I would suppose you will not want the book
and even want to read it.  You have a closed
mind, Curtis.

>	As to why she in particular had these manifestations,
> he's a huge clue from the 1972 Encase. Brit.:  "NEUMANN, THERESE
> . . . At the age of 20 she underwent a severe nervous shock
> through the outbreak of a fire and subsequently suffered from
> hysterical paralysis, blindness and gastric troubles for
> several years."  *Before* the stigmata appeared, IOW, she
> was exhibiting strong psychosomatic manifestations.

WP> So what?  Adequately covered in the book I
WP> continuously recommend for you to read! I
WP> think  you would be interested in the full
WP> story, Curtis. In fact, you don't know the
WP> crisis this women went through until you
WP> read this book.

>	That she was already a psychosomatic wreck *before*
> the stigmata has no relevance to the stigmata being
> psychosomatic in origin?

Oh really?  I got the impression that she was
as happy as can be! A condition that caused such
a trauma as you describe would certainly be a
negative in here case, which it is not.  This
woman was the epitomy of happiness!  Read the
book, Curtis!

>	As for the purpose of "all of us to see and reflect,"
> art has done that and for more people.  Indeed, the stigmata
> comes only to those who have already done such prolonged
> "meditation" upon the sufferings.

Yeo, art and I will add, good music can do that
for you.  This elevates it to a divine contemplation
that far exceeds this physical arts can achieve.

>	Now, William, you might ask yourself just what is the
> character of a godling that would purposefully inflict his
> wounds upon his followers.

But the problem with this scenario is that indeed,
God inflicts it at the cooperation of the recipient!
This is a hard doctrine that non-Catholics have a
hard time contemplating, but "suffering for Christ"
is something more or less exclusive in Catholicism.

You will understand it better when you take RCIA
courses for your conversion!  <kidding, of course!>

WP> This is a mystery that YOU, Curtis, will have
WP> to unravel for yourself.  You see, you expect
WP> a God to have it just perfect for you, right?
WP> Before you will believe in God, you will
WP> expect that God will make earth today like
WP> the heaven you hear about.  Well, believe it
WP> or not, that was exactly what God intended,

>	You are the one, presumably, that believes that
> your God and his Godling are perfect.

Yes I do..........

>	Now, once again--since you dodged the question--
> just what is the character of a Godling that would
> purposefully inflict his wounds upon his followers??

Read the above.  It would also be helpful to
read on the lives of the great Catholic mystics
who endure such wounds with great joy!  I know
that is something you will not understand.

WP> Few canonized saints were so privileged to be similarly
WP> "afflicted."

CJ> AAMOF, none at all until St. Francis started the
CJ> fashion.

WP> How did he do it, Curtis?

>	<Shrug>  Genuine psychosomatic manifestation?

Study the life of St. Francis of Assisi and you
will get a good idea.

> Deliberate or unconscious digging of fingernails into the
> palms (which has also been the case with many stigmatics)??

Not when they are closely observed, as Therese
Newmann was, especially Good Friday, when the
blood would issue from the "wounds of the thorns
Christ suffered" on His head, as well as her
side, where the spear was pierced into Christ's
side. That will get you to your knees, Curtis!

Get the book with the color photos!



* PW * Hail (Mary) Full of grace, the Lord is with thee...(Lk 1,

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Serendipity BBS. Pensacola Fl. 1-850-457-4066  (1:3612/63.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 218/890 1001 221/100 270/101 396/1 3615/50 51 3804/180
PATH: 3612/63 3662/51 396/1 3615/50 218/1001