From: William Putnam
To: Curtis Johnson
Date: Feb 17 1998 8:47:00 pm
Subject: Case #5 1/4
Parent message · Link to this message · Link to this thread ·
More messages from this author · Toggle pseudo-headers
CURTIS JOHNSON spoke thusly about: Case #5

CJ> A ministry?  What good does spilt, untransfused blood
CJ> do?  Unless maybe it satisfies someone's taste for gore?

WP> You dodge the issue, Curtis.  Why does this
WP> woman have such manifestations?  Are they
WP> not perhaps for all of us to see and reflect
WP> upon the same sufferings, Christ endured on
WP> the cross?  That was gory as well, Curtis.

>	No, I did not dodge the issue.  As you can see
> below, I answered it.  Trance states are known to produce
> similar phenomena--physical blistering upon the suggestion
> of a burn, etc.  Conscious control of blood vessels can
> also be taught by biofeedback (control of hand temperature
> by a couple of degrees).

Sure, but is it true in this case?  Can you
produce a refutation of the findings in this
case? I still suggest you read the book I
suggest and them you come up with a good
retort on what it says.

>	As to why she in particular had these manifestations,
> he's a huge clue from the 1972 Enc. Brit.:  "NEUMANN, THERESE
> . . . At the age of 20 she underwent a severe nervous shock
> through the outbreak of a fire and subsequently suffered from
> hysterical paralysis, blindness and gastric troubles for
> several years."  *Before* the stigmata appeared, IOW, she
> was exhibiting strong psychosomatic manifestations.

So what?  Adequately covered in the book I
continuously recommend for you to read! I
think  you would be interested in the full
story, Curtis. In fact, you don't know the
crisis this women went through until you
read this book.

>	As for the purpose of "all of us to see and reflect,"
> art has done that and for more people.  Indeed, the stigmata
> comes only to those who have already done such prolonged
> "meditation" upon the sufferings.

>	Now, William, you might ask yourself just what is the
> character of a godling that would purposefully inflict his
> wounds upon his followers.

This is a mystery that YOU, Curtis, will have
to unravel for yourself.  You see, you expect
a God to have it just perfect for you, right?
Before you will believe in God, you will
expect that God will make earth today like
the heaven you hear about.  Well, believe it
or not, that was exactly what God intended,
but for intervening reasons, that was not to
be.........To be continued.  (It is a long

WP> Few canonized saints were so privileged to be similarly
WP> "afflicted."

CJ> AAMOF, none at all until St. Francis started the
CJ> fashion.

WP> How did he do it, Curtis?

>	See above.  Doesn't the fact that this never occurred
> for twelve-hundred years suggest something to you?

Self inflicted?  How do you know that, or
are you so hard-headed that you cannot see
a divine intervention is such a circumstance?

WP> Coincident to the opening up of the wounds, and the great flow
WP> of blood from every orifice, including the wounds along her
WP> forehead from the great thorns of the crown of thorns, she
WP> would go into as ecstatic trance.  Medical examinations by
WP> banks of medical doctors were on hand to measure every drop
WP> of blood, and to measure every bodily function during these
WP> events.  Nothing could be found to indicate fraud or deceit
WP> on anyone's part.  This went on for years and years, and are
WP> included in mountains and mountains of documents of the many
WP> years these events occurred during her lifetime.  But there
WP> was more to come.

CJ> Note the trance part--and note that similar phenomena
CJ> are reproduced by hypnotism.

You gotta to be kidding me! Show me the hypotist
that can induce in a person.  Or if you are insisting
upon self-hypnosis, show me a valid example of
the wounds that occur, the fact that she eats only
the Blessed Sacrament for her only food, and subsists
on nothing else.  The body needs food, Curtis, and
if she is not getting it and remains alive, something
else is going on and it is NOT self-hypnosis!

WP> Who did the hypnotizing, Curtis?

Continued in next post....

* PW *

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Serendipity BBS. Pensacola Fl. 1-850-457-4066  (1:3612/63.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 218/890 1001 270/101 396/1 3615/50 51 3804/180
PATH: 3612/63 3662/51 396/1 3615/50 218/1001