From: Curtis Johnson
To: William Putnam
Date: Feb 20 1998 2:55:48 pm
Subject: Case #5 1/4
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CJ> A ministry?  What good does spilt, untransfused blood
CJ> do?  Unless maybe it satisfies someone's taste for gore?

WP> You dodge the issue, Curtis.  Why does this
WP> woman have such manifestations?  Are they
WP> not perhaps for all of us to see and reflect
WP> upon the same sufferings, Christ endured on

> No, I did not dodge the issue.  As you can see
> below, I answered it.  Trance states are known to produce
> similar phenomena--physical blistering upon the suggestion
> of a burn, etc.  Conscious control of blood vessels can
> also be taught by biofeedback (control of hand temperature

WP> Sure, but is it true in this case?  Can you
WP> produce a refutation of the findings in this
WP> case? I still suggest you read the book I
WP> suggest and them you come up with a good
WP> retort on what it says.

The prolonged meditation on the Christ wounds
in which the Church asks the subject to imagine the
wounds in themselves can't lead to a trance state with
the suggestion that the wounds occur???
Thanks for the upload of the book section--the
book is indeed as silly as I suspected.

>	As to why she in particular had these manifestations,
> he's a huge clue from the 1972 Enc. Brit.:  "NEUMANN, THERESE
> . . . At the age of 20 she underwent a severe nervous shock
> through the outbreak of a fire and subsequently suffered from
> hysterical paralysis, blindness and gastric troubles for
> several years."  *Before* the stigmata appeared, IOW, she
> was exhibiting strong psychosomatic manifestations.

WP> So what?  Adequately covered in the book I
WP> continuously recommend for you to read! I
WP> think  you would be interested in the full
WP> story, Curtis. In fact, you don't know the
WP> crisis this women went through until you
WP> read this book.

That she was already a psychosomatic wreck *before*
the stigmata has no relevance to the stigmata being
psychosomatic in origin?

>	As for the purpose of "all of us to see and reflect,"
> art has done that and for more people.  Indeed, the stigmata
> comes only to those who have already done such prolonged
> "meditation" upon the sufferings.

>	Now, William, you might ask yourself just what is the
> character of a godling that would purposefully inflict his
> wounds upon his followers.

WP> This is a mystery that YOU, Curtis, will have
WP> to unravel for yourself.  You see, you expect
WP> a God to have it just perfect for you, right?
WP> Before you will believe in God, you will
WP> expect that God will make earth today like
WP> the heaven you hear about.  Well, believe it
WP> or not, that was exactly what God intended,

You are the one, presumably, that believes that
your God and his Godling are perfect.
Now, once again--since you dodged the question--
just what is the character of a Godling that would
purposefully inflict his wounds upon his followers??

WP> Few canonized saints were so privileged to be similarly
WP> "afflicted."

CJ> AAMOF, none at all until St. Francis started the
CJ> fashion.

WP> How did he do it, Curtis?

<Shrug>  Genuine psychosomatic manifestation?
Deliberate or unconscious digging of fingernails into the
palms (which has also been the case with many stigmatics)??

>	See above.  Doesn't the fact that this never occurred
> for twelve-hundred years suggest something to you?
WP>
WP> Self inflicted?  How do you know that, or
WP> are you so hard-headed that you cannot see
WP> a divine intervention is such a circumstance?

A Godling that does to his followers what the Romans
did to him?  Swell character your Godling's got.  If you
got beat up, would you smack your friends as a sign of your
favor?

WP> Coincident to the opening up of the wounds, and the great flow
WP> of blood from every orifice, including the wounds along her
WP> forehead from the great thorns of the crown of thorns, she
WP> would go into as ecstatic trance.  Medical examinations by

CJ> Note the trance part--and note that similar phenomena
CJ> are reproduced by hypnotism.

WP> You gotta to be kidding me! Show me the hypotist
WP> that can induce in a person.  Or if you are insisting
WP> upon self-hypnosis, show me a valid example of
WP> the wounds that occur, the fact that she eats only

In general, Catholics are the only ones masochistic
enough to pretend for long periods of time that they have
holes in their hands and feet.  There is a wide range of
"conversion," aka hysteria phenomena though--which Neumann
exhibited before.

WP> the Blessed Sacrament for her only food, and subsists
WP> on nothing else.  The body needs food, Curtis, and
WP> if she is not getting it and remains alive, something
WP> else is going on and it is NOT self-hypnosis!

Of relevance is that the hysteric also commonly
resorts to fakery to get attention, and also has
dissociative splits--i.e., has amnesia for doing "shameful"
things.
The "something else" going on, as clearly suggested
by the two times she refused to have her anorexic claim
examined, is a lie (conscious or not) by her, pure and
simple.

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