From: Curtis Johnson
To: William Putnam
Date: Feb 16 1998 6:42:26 am
Subject: Case #5
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WP> was indeed chosen for a special ministry -- a ministry that
WP> is rare, and seldom seen throughout the history of the Church.

CJ> A ministry?  What good does spilt, untransfused blood
CJ> do?  Unless maybe it satisfies someone's taste for gore?

WP> You dodge the issue, Curtis.  Why does this
WP> woman have such manifestations?  Are they
WP> not perhaps for all of us to see and reflect
WP> upon the same sufferings, Christ endured on
WP> the cross?  That was gory as well, Curtis.

No, I did not dodge the issue.  As you can see
below, I answered it.  Trance states are known to produce
similar phenomena--physical blistering upon the suggestion
of a burn, etc.  Conscious control of blood vessels can
also be taught by biofeedback (control of hand temperature
by a couple of degrees).

As to why she in particular had these manifestations,
he's a huge clue from the 1972 Enc. Brit.:  "NEUMANN, THERESE
. . . At the age of 20 she underwent a severe nervous shock
through the outbreak of a fire and subsequently suffered from
hysterical paralysis, blindness and gastric troubles for
several years."  *Before* the stigmata appeared, IOW, she
was exhibiting strong psychosomatic manifestations.

As for the purpose of "all of us to see and reflect,"
art has done that and for more people.  Indeed, the stigmata
comes only to those who have already done such prolonged
"meditation" upon the sufferings.

Now, William, you might ask yourself just what is the
character of a godling that would purposefully inflict his
wounds upon his followers.

WP> Few canonized saints were so privileged to be similarly
WP> "afflicted."

CJ> AAMOF, none at all until St. Francis started the
CJ> fashion.

WP> How did he do it, Curtis?

See above.  Doesn't the fact that this never occurred
for twelve-hundred years suggest something to you?

WP> Coincident to the opening up of the wounds, and the great flow
WP> of blood from every orifice, including the wounds along her
WP> forehead from the great thorns of the crown of thorns, she
WP> would go into as ecstatic trance.  Medical examinations by
WP> banks of medical doctors were on hand to measure every drop
WP> of blood, and to measure every bodily function during these
WP> events.  Nothing could be found to indicate fraud or deceit
WP> on anyone's part.  This went on for years and years, and are
WP> included in mountains and mountains of documents of the many
WP> years these events occurred during her lifetime.  But there
WP> was more to come.

CJ> Note the trance part--and note that similar phenomena
CJ> are reproduced by hypnotism.

WP> Who did the hypnotizing, Curtis?

Never heard the term "autohypnosis," have you?

WP> Therese came to take less and less food, until a time came when
WP> the only solid food taken was the Eucharist (the consecrated
WP> bread of Holy Communion.) She subsisted on only this meager meal
WP> for many years and up until her death.  She was closely monitored,
WP> and her every move was documented, and it has been carefully
WP> determined that indeed, the Eucharist was her ONLY meal.

CJ> Scurvy weakens the walls of blood vessels.  It's the
CJ> first deficiency of a bread-and-water diet, which would take
CJ> well over a year to kill through diet deficiencies.

WP> Is this relevant to the issue at hand? What has
WP> this to do with a woman who remained the same
WP> weight throughout this period?  How do you
WP> explain that?

CJ> Claims of subsisting on no food at all are sometimes
CJ> met in the holy men of other religions, particularly Hindu.
CJ> Why is your claim evidence for your religion, but not theirs
CJ> for their religion?

WP> Curtis, I have never claimed that the Catholic
WP> Church is the only religion that has these
WP> phenomenon.  I simply have not seen it
WP> documented. If the holy Hindu monks actually
WP> did this, good for them!  How well is this
WP> documented, Curtis?

Well, let's just see how well this claim of subsisting
through the host alone is, shall we?

To continue with the Enc. Brit. article:  "Following her
stigmatization, Therese claimed to live without food or drink,
being sustained only by Holy Communion.  At the request of her
bishop she was subjected to a fortnight's investigation in 1927.
Later the church authorities recognized this to have been
inconclusive, ashysterical subjects are known to be able to
sustain a complete fast for more than three weeks; in 1932 and
1937 she was requested to submit to another examination but
refused, alleging that her father forbade her to do so."  (Note:
she was born in 1898, making her 39 in 1937!)

Putnam, if you don't feel a great anger at having been
hoodwinked by your source, you are indeed hopelessly gullible.

CJ> Did TN ever evacuate her bowels when she was receiving
CJ> only the Eucharist?  If so, then one side of the "shit-eater"
CJ> controversy about the Eucharist would have been vindicated--
CJ> the literal body of Christ would be turned by the believer's
CJ> body into shit.

WP> I answer this despite the profane words as it is important.
WP> This point came up in the investigation, and they found
WP> that she had no bowl movements at all!  I think this is
WP> covered extensively in the book I recommend.  No wait,
WP> I saw that in the internet.  Do a search and see what you
WP> find, Curtis.

Give me the URL.  Even if the observation ruled this
out (somehow I'm beginning to doubt that she was *that*
closely watched in the water closet), it would not at all
be unusual not to move the bowels during a two-week fast.

WP> Other phenomenon documented includes speaking in tongues (All
WP> Pentecostals, take note), prophesy, many visions, cures, bi-
WP> location, and other phenomenon that are documented to the finest
WP> degree.

CJ> ". . .documented to the finest degree"?  70mm movies in
CJ> many angles were taken of her visions and bilocations???
WP> That would have been nice if it were available,
WP> Curtis.  Methinks that no fine art of documentation
WP> will suffice for you, will it?  :-)

Like your documentation that she lived only on the

The credibility of this case is now completely zero.
If you don't feel any anger at being led to have made a
fool of yourself in an international echo, your credulousness
is near-infinite.

... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 218/890 1001 270/101 396/1 3615/50 51 3804/180
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