Messages From Steven Saus
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murderer McVeigh
What do you do when there's evidence that labs or examiners have tainted the evidence, such as the FBI crime lab, or more specifically, a WV lab that provided the genetic evidence that convicted an alledged rapist who was imprisoned for over five years before it was discovered the lab was tainting the evidence? you As cold as it sounds, I have to look at Heinlein's example of a lunar society in _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_. Blue Wave/DOS

America's Most Wanted Cr
meani to I just want to ensure I understand this properly I'm okay with this post, even though I didn't put <snip> here and there, but if I had changed that last set of KW(> to KY> I'd be in for it, or if I changed the *words*, I'd be exiled (gasp! horrors!), right? The only other question would be what if I didn't quote your last little snippet (which isn't really germane to my question) but stopped

why yo <snip> I cannot speak for others, but I know that my dislike for organized xtianity stems not from murder, but from oppression, and the great history that xtianity (and other organized religions) have of being completely blind to the fact that other people may believe differently than them and that there's always the possibility that the others are right. The xtian who believes, yet is truly *accepting* of another's belief is a rare creature indeed. And accepting sure

ACLU NEWS 01-30-97: C
You forgot a basic portion of xtian dogma (though rarely stated this bluntly): the sins of the fathers DO affect the next generation. Well, mothers too. I guess. And potentially the mailman and milkman, and delivery boy... well, anyway. I've seen that principle be used as justification from the Amelkites (sp?) in the OT to abortion-only-if-rape... Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

Forwarding BlueWave
I don't see why it would I upload to a non-BW OLM door. Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

I rather thought omnipotence meant ALL-powerful; iow that if a omnipotent god really *felt* like removing a cliff in a great tidal wave, they'd damn well be able to do it. Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

brothers in make believe
Didn't Nicea cut quite a bit more before that? Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

Ditto for heart rates, given the ability to percieve the changes (iow, hooked up to a monitor). Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

Xtian murders
But while that has relevance re: Jelly's comments, that has nil relevance with the original quote about xtian "killing sprees". of are Back in '92 I was participating in 2 different echoes (local ones) on two geographically removed boards. Both were religious debate, but one was dominated by xtians, one was dominated by pagans. BOTH sides were complaining about how they'd been treated rudely, violently, etc by the other and as a result, they treated the other side that

Cheese Whiz choices
If it's clearly evidenced that you are in a position to do that, and I ignore it, I will have made a CHOICE to ignore the potential consequences. It is not a stretch of the imagination (at least for most people) to forsee retribution for a murder, so when one CHOOSES that action, they likewise choose the consequences of it. Failing to accept the consequences of one's actions often leads to "why me?" whininess, which is annoying enough to deserve

murderer McVeigh
Whether or not it sends a message of right/wrong is, quite frankly, moot. It *DOES* send a message of consequences, though. Actually, your mention of revenge killing brought something to mind... is it really possible to get a good sense of closure for the survivors of a murder (family, etc) WITHOUT the killer being brought to justice, at least in some form? This I find a more compelling argument that "killing is bad". You're correct it *is* being done

10-The List
Figure I might as well satisfy the ham in me and get me added to the list... (judging from my above statement, I'm not kosher...) who: Steven Saus aka Surgical Steel what: agnostic theist with a serious lack of appreciation for societal lies. where: Newport News, VA (much too close to the 700 club) how long in HS: Was in HS for a very brief time a year+ back (read: less than one month), have gotten up to speed in

ever Aw, don't blame the guy for the way his words got COMPLETELY twisted. There's some nice idealistic stuff in there if you cut through all the BS. '94 Ever wonder why it was so hard to rent a Ryder truck at the beginning of 1994? Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

john says god is insane
Some would argue there's about 5 billion of those. An interesting thought in and of itself. Fundamentally unprovable, but an interesting thought. Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

murderer McVeigh
Are you trying to say that they were not fully in control while "in the heat of the moment"? If so, why punish *at all* especially in regards to life imprisonment if your eventual aim is rehabilitation? If they *WERE* fully in control, then why should there be a lessening of the punishment simply because they didn't take the time to plan? Also consider two additional factors: Who is determining "heat of the moment"? Do you have a

murderer McVeigh
Although I'm sure your statement is well-intentioned, where do you draw the line of functioning within society? Making such a statement official policy raises very frightening scenarios within my skull... How do you determine potential rehabilitation in a short time-frame? To what extent would you make efforts to rehabilitate someone? How do you intend to found a peaceful society when there is still a need for unpeaceful (is that a word?) citizens to kill murderers or (blurring topic a little)

Agreed! This is an *EXCELLENT* argument... and hereby archived.... Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

Oh hell, even if it's *not* irrelevant, it's comparing apples and orangutangs. <singing> One of these things is not like the others, one of these things involves consent, one of these things is not like the others, can you guess which one before my! Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

Forked Tongue
I dunno about complete Bibles, but I have seen PORTIONS of the Bible (most notably, the Book of Job) included in Literature textbooks. Of course, they're usually preceded by a foreword that goes something like this: "[blah blah English lit blah blah] The King James version of the Bible was specifically comissioned to be pleasant to the ear, and translated with that instead of literal accuracy in mind." Which, of course, is wonderful when you're dealing with bible inerrancy and

murderer McVeigh
I refer you again to a part of the previous quote. He had an option that awful day in Oklahoma City. He made his choice. Now come the consequences of that choice. Blue Wave/DOS v2.30